dwr on Farcaster

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https://warpcast.com/~/channel/bad-takes

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Dan Romero pfp

Tell me why I'm wrong: Ethereum L1 or L2 gas fees make micropayments too expensive for everyday consumer apps. Less frequent payments? Sure. But 10x a day? No.

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Dan Romero pfp

I love that posting a /bad-takes has a picture of @briang

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MunicipalBondLagrange pfp

MunicipalBondLagrange

@eulerlagrange.eth

UTXOs can make things pretty cheap. https://vitalik.eth.limo/general/2023/11/14/neoplasma.html Plasma/Validiums are now possible because of advancements in ZKPs. This system doesn’t support arbitrary tx amount though, has to be some standard sizing.

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will pfp

sounds right to me but tbh i'm skeptical that humans actually want the cognitive overhead of micropayments (stated vs revealed etc). Interested to watch your warp-tipping experiment play out

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I think this is part of why people like to use Warps so much

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DCinvestor pfp

likely viable on validium architectures (with off-chain data availability), or you think too expensive there too? haven't heard them discussed in a while, but think volition models could give you best of both worlds (security + cheap tx's when you need them)

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Syed Shah🏴‍☠️🌊 pfp

Syed Shah🏴‍☠️🌊

I’m confused about the size of payments that would fit this description that would also be good to implement. That Venn Diagram looks like two separate circles to me.

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polynya pfp

For micropayments, need $0 fees Will probably need a hybrid solution (acceptable, because very low value) combined with stuff like this: https://ethresear.ch/t/springrollup-a-zk-rollup-that-allows-a-sender-to-batch-an-unlimited-number-of-transfers-with-only-6-bytes-of-calldata-per-batch/11033

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Jesse Pollak pfp

@jesse.base.eth

i agree, would do it with an L3 plasma with alt-DA

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Mac Budkowski pfp

$0.01 tx fee fo $0.33 payment is the same as 2.9% Stripe tax. So if by microtransactions we mean $0.50+ per payment, it'd still be an improvement.

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$jacob pfp

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Gabriel Ayuso pfp

@gabrielayuso.eth

TradFi also had to figure out had to make micropayments work with the credit card rails and fees.

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shazow pfp

Validiums/volitions make fees as cheap as you want to subsidize offchain (can be as cheap as warps), basically off-chain DA transactions that get settled on-chain occasionally. There's a few prod examples today (starkware mainly), I agree it's less accessible than say... "just use Base"

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᠎ pfp

as long as the UX is smooth, this fits into the expected budget. is 10 x $.30 pushing it? for sure, but w/ scaling improvements ethereum should be able to handle this. the miss, as far as I can tell, is that most of Ethereum usage has nothing to do IRL daily budget (mostly just entertainment, instead).

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Connor McCormick ☀️ pfp

Connor McCormick ☀️

we're entering an age of abundance where energy costs will fall precipitously and epistemic value will become more important ("Yes, this is actually a video of me, not a deepfake")

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Fran pfp

What do you consider a micropayment?

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$isaac pfp

minting feels very much like a micropayment activity to me (but idt i’ll be stopping anytime soon) wrote a quick note about this:

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vrypan |--o--| pfp

I agree. I think the way to do this is to use a centralized intermediary that will periodically settle these onchain. I trust WC to collect my $0.1 gifts and commit them onchain when they reach $100.

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prompt pfp

@promptrotator.eth

I agree. The entire transaction model doesn't really make sense for high throughput apps today, and potentially not for a while. At the same time, not every interaction needs to be onchain.

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Dean Pierce 👨‍💻🌎🌍 pfp

Dean Pierce 👨‍💻🌎🌍

@deanpierce.eth

Every time you drive to the store, or turn on a light switch, you're paying a tiny amount. Maybe we just need to normalize "gas tanks" that you refuel every month or so. Like one way payment channels you can commit funds to and trust accounting contracts to pull from. UX disruptions are more relevant than price IMO.

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