JR ↑ on Farcaster

Content pfp

https://warpcast.com/~/channel/degentokenbase

0 reply

0 recast

0 reaction

Jacek.degen.eth 🎩 pfp

Jacek.degen.eth 🎩

We’re super happy to hear opinions like these! The part at the end really makes Degen worthwhile. This season, we hope players of all sizes get a fair shot at tipping and that we spread the love not just to the big accounts but to every corner of Farcaster, creating a rich mix of content!

20 replies

10 recasts

64 reactions

wake pfp

With allowances capped, we need a smart way for large wallets to sponsor small wallets. Mayhaps time for you to consider letting wallets above certain sizes delegate their unutilized allowances (ie, whatever they'd get beyond the cap limit). Whitelist the function to the largest wallets with the longest hold times (Feb forward) maybe. The Degentlemen 🎩

9 replies

1 recast

15 reactions

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩 pfp

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩

We did talk briefly about a "vouching" mechanism, where you could stake funds toward another account, but ultimately decided it was too complicated for v1. Maybe time to bring it back?

6 replies

1 recast

10 reactions

wake pfp

think so. but even I won't be able to guarantee any particular allowance at the rate the vault is growing. i could stake 300m today, take half the pool for me and mine, and be whittled down to dust within a month. entropy will keep rising unless something pushes it back toward equilibria

3 replies

0 recast

4 reactions

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩 pfp

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩

I think there are ways to counteract it, we talked about making vouches a refund mechanism, so that payers who can prove they transacted with a wallet can reclaim some percentage of the transaction from the receiver's vouches. The refund would then partially go to paying staking rewards to other users who had vouched, and would create a meta where you could send someone DEGEN and try to deplete their vouches at the cost of the delta between payment and refund. Ideally, once people have some fun with it, it becomes sorta like purchase insurance for lame frames or fraudulent commercial transactions

1 reply

0 recast

1 reaction

wake pfp

can you ELI5 that for me? sounds interesting but i'm not getting it,.

2 replies

0 recast

1 reaction

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩 pfp

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩

Here's an example experience: I vouch 500 DEGEN for @wake and you get extra tipping allowance @jacek thinks you have too much tip allowance, so he sends @wake 500 DEGEN and hits the refund contract - 250 DEGEN is slashed from my vouch and sent to @jacek - 175 stays staked for @wake, and - 75 goes into a yield pool split by all other vouchers So the P&L is: - @wake | +500 DEGEN, -tipping allowance - @jacek | -250 DEGEN, +tipping allowance - @cadillion | -325 DEGEN, -tipping allowance, +yield - vouchers | +yield, +tipping allowance So individual tippers are incentivized to vouch for people who won't get slashed, and to buy the future tip allowance of people who are overrepresented

4 replies

1 recast

3 reactions

Uncle HODL pfp

Please God no 😭 Sounds like friend tech and alfafrens had an illegitimate child 😂 People just want to tip, and to feel like they have a meaningful amount... Not do extra calculations and steps. There should've just been a hard cap on staking amount but I assume this first test run is more about appeasing the whales and people like me that held the bag. I think @burrrrrberry suggestion was best I've seen and perhaps this month will give enough data to change things up again 🤔

4 replies

0 recast

7 reactions

RJ (replyor) pfp

Fr though, i agree it's too complicated. Rn the only thing people seem in agreement on is that this current version is not good. So I love seeing all the creative suggestions - that's how you find a path forward that works. It's an very difficult/impossible balance between keeping it simple and preventing people from taking advantage in large numbers and keeping things sustainable. I've been critical but also doing envy them for having to solve for all this stuff. Just gotta hope they iterate quick but that's so much more difficult with a lock.

1 reply

0 recast

3 reactions

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩 pfp

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩

Loud and clear, definitely glad we didn't roll this out. We're at the drawing board trying to find easy ways for the community to play a more dynamic role in determining the tip allowances

3 replies

0 recast

2 reactions

RJ (replyor) pfp

Part of the frustration is that you say you're looking for easy ways to involve the community in determining allowances, yet the #1 way we can do that -- through openrank/etc -- was just removed from the equation (aside from a small bonus) and it's almost entirely pay to play. I know there's a lot I don't know, but there just has to be a better way. Psychologically knowing that your allowance is going to go down every day for the next 90 days is just...uncool? People like number go up. They like leaderboards where rank can go up. And asking people to constantly stake more and restart the 90 days isn't going to work imo. People play games bc they're fun. If you take the fun out and make it number go down and math equations, imo people will stop playing. But that's just my opinion and there's so much I do not know. You could guarantee a minimum allowance when someone stakes. You could more evenly split openrank's influence. You could scale up the allowance pool and max allowance as the locked amount grows. imo

2 replies

0 recast

3 reactions

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩 pfp

Colton Dillion 🃏🎩

These are great suggestions, and we're actively discussing the distribution. Part of why we de-prioritized OpenRank is because we heard similar feedback on the rank concentrating tips among the top 1000 people and making it difficult for new degens to get started. We can only sustainably offer so much per day in DEGEN tip allowances, and our total holders is growing, so making number go up for everyone is going to be impossible. The question for us is how to make sure that tipping allowances go up for the people who want to be involved for the long term and who want to tip honestly

1 reply

0 recast

5 reactions

RJ (replyor) pfp

It feels like you guys went from one extreme to another, when most people want a happy medium. As someone with a decent allowance last season, it didn't make sense to me to give people 5 degen allowances. I would've happily shaved X% off my allowance to redistribute to people, as would've others. Ultimately this is a game, and people have fun when they're PLAYING. You can't play with 5, 10, 15 degen. That's like showing up to a giant water balloon fight and being given one balloon and then having to watch everyone else play. Tipping allowances don't need to go up for everyone every day -- that is unsustainable obv. ESPECIALLY now given there are no unlocks for 90 days. At some point you'll have unlocks to balance things in some form. But the fact that they can ONLY go down for everyone everyday is what sucks. This is just basic human psychology. We're monkeys that like leaderboards and ranks n stuff lol Also, just want to say thanks for taking the time to reply to this and for all you do.

3 replies

0 recast

7 reactions

tim/vortac pfp

Absolutely important to mention the psychological effect. I had around a stable 900 last season and was able to incentivize my channels and support artists, today 600, tomorrow 300 and pretty sure this is going to drop further. No need to mention that I participate since the early days and distribute my allowance daily since months… I’ve always tipped more than I received from others, everyone has their part, so my holdings aren’t gigantic. Also had to sell a bit, but I don’t see it as free money, so no bad conscience. A strange feeling is that you don’t know where you end up and when it will stabilize, if at all. You have nothing to be certain of. And there’s no counter-balance, the vault will grow and allowances will dwindle…

1 reply

0 recast

3 reactions

RJ (replyor) pfp

I agree with all of this, Tim. Hopefully they find a way to sustainably bring openrank and stuff back into the algo.

1 reply

0 recast

3 reactions

JR ↑ pfp

Why not add more games, leaderboards & parameteres as inputs. Some games are easier for whales, others are easier for fun people or hard workers. All contributions are important for $degen and its ecosystem: 1️⃣ We initially wanted weekly contests for trading volume, trading performance, active creators & best content 2️⃣ RE: staking & allowances, native staking is a solid base to build on. I'd love to see ecosystem apps with staking & other Degen activity, contributions, tipping track record to be included towards Degen allowance 3️⃣ People should not only focus on $degen allocation game ((Note: Token Distribution is the start but long-term usage is key!) but compete in different games. Staking in apps, yield on $degen are usual use cases for hodlers aside native staking. 🎩 As a Degen community focused on economic growth & enabling creators + consumers around Farcaster, Degen apps we SHOULD reward good $degen content, builders, onboarders, channel hosts/mods, app powerusers, curators..

1 reply

0 recast

2 reactions

RJ (replyor) pfp

Personally, I think it's a thin line between appropriately complicated and overcomplicated but what you're talking about sounds too complicated for me. 1 - I understand wanting/needing to encourage trading, but this seems independent of the tipping game. Or a bonus to it. If people spend their time tracking charts and trading, they'll have less time for the tipping game. 2 - I am against staking in general bc I think it's a short-term fix that ultimately causes more harm than good in the long term way more often than not. BUT, if staking is what the team thinks is best for the project, I believe they should've balanced it with OpenRank (or something like it). Abandoning OpenRank almost entirely was a slap in the face to the community. Asking people to lock 10-100x the amount they needed previously for smaller allos that will shrink daily was a kick in the nuts. I think both of these things are pretty obvious 3 - Right now the ONLY reward for staking is a tipping allowance. There's nothing else to focus on

1 reply

0 recast

2 reactions

JR ↑ pfp

1. Is just fun ideas for any community. The DEGEN community should have started initiatives like this a long time ago to keep the fun & degen spirits high. Note: This has nothing to do with token distributions, making sth more complex. 2/3. Locking for no reason is no design I like either. Locking for allowance is okayish - imo better than random Farcaster engagement farmers distributing tokens (holders like me essentially funded this) - but I’d prefer more value-add for the ecosystem including other activities like staking, using ecosystem apps, posting good content, tipping good content. Openrank measures Farcaster activity & especially connections - that’s one input that somewhat favors Farcaster OGs, engagement farmers & their circles. I think it’s okay to include this too (I want to make Farcaster better after all) but I want more Degen-aligned inputs too. The farmers with no skin in the game, no interest in $Degen shouldn’t build up their network here w/out paying for it, at least risking sth.

1 reply

0 recast

2 reactions

RJ (replyor) pfp

i have no issues with value-add stuff, and it doesn't sound like we're all that far apart. staking -- sure, just not 100% staking (which you don't seem to want either) post/tipping good content -- this is highly subjective and essentially where openrank comes in. you can say there are flows and it's 10000% skewed towards OGs, but that can be fixed or a diff algo (ex: airstack) can be used. its the concept. they're all flawed. using ecosystem apps -- that's great, but what apps? buying and nft (or an ens name) is just more pay to play.

1 reply

0 recast

2 reactions

JR ↑ pfp

Indeed, people fighting on 1 issue agree on 90% of rest as they joined the same community! Start simple, add to it (+delete) if it provides (no) extra value 1. Give people allowance > native staking > LP > safe lending in top 3 apps 2. Whitelist top eco staking apps > alfafrens > drakula > farfantasy, rekt For those apps & others it may be good to commit to staking / leaving $degen in the app but not to specific creators.. I’m sure Perl, Jam, Degenpad, powerbald, bracket, mint club, NFTdegen & new startups would love early Degen users & maybe this is the extra incentive users need to kickstart apps > when I put a little stake in a game/ecosystem, I stay up to date. If not, I tend to lose interest or forget > the more useful the staking the better obv & different users with risk-reward positions would be attracted to stake to tip, earn, curate, elevate, subscribe, play, pay 3. Add delegations (+ clawbacks) 4. Add boosts for activity, track record, good tippers & rewards (but then it gets complex..)

1 reply

0 recast

2 reactions

RJ (replyor) pfp

a lot to address i don't like lp-ing. i always lose money. people who don't know what they're doing shouldn't be doing it. i don't know why you need to lend in other apps either. just need really relevant. that might apply to other airdrops n stuff as a bonus, but shouldnt impact allowance. don't get me started on alfafrens. but no. drakula is fine but just not my thing, i don't want to be forced to use it. same for farfantasy and rekt. selfishly i just don't want to do these things. and from a platform standpoint, my time is finite. any time i spend on those things is time away from here. and if im forced to do them i just wont and itll be a net negative for everyone. perl is a game that i don't find fun jam is vaporware degenpad is cool, but i can choose to send my tips there powerbald is great, i bridged just to play i don't know all the others but i think its great to be involved, i just dont think it should impact allowance. i dont mind skin in the game, just dont like 100% pay to play

2 replies

0 recast

2 reactions

JR ↑ pfp

What’s the special deal about the allowance? It’s merely a way to distribute tokens to value-adders, value-adding initiatives + some marketing effect. I don’t think anyone likes everything but I do think some will like 1 app or 1 staking initiative. (Be good in 1,2 to get a high allowance, not in everything) I personally don’t LP much but it improves the onchain liquidity which is important. Having liquidity in lending, can lead also to more efficient markets. Especially for a degen ecosystem, there are quite some use cases that can leverage such liquidity. If it was up to me, we wouldn’t distribute any tokens anymore. Since we do, I’d rather experiment with initiatives that can help the economy short- and long-term and incentivize behavior that can help breakout apps that will bring more users and more value back into the ecosystem.

0 reply

0 recast

2 reactions