A place for developers to talk about building on Farcaster.

/dev

Is private messaging in Warpcast independent to the protocol or a farcaster feature?

Use @infinex-app and thank me later - https://app.infinex.xyz?r=9RQ4I9SH

Private messaging based on double/triple ratchet is hard to do without a server that routes messages. You also want to support push notifications, delivery if your phone is offline for awhile etc.

It’s hard to do and retain the privacy properties. My FIP goes into detail on how to provide it in the decentralized context:

Working on building zkTLS infra/products. A ruthless empiricist and meme connoisseur.

/opacity

and

/eulerlagrange

It’s hard to do and retain the privacy properties. My FIP goes into detail on how to provide it in the decentralized context: https://www.github.com/Farcasterxyz/protocol/discussions/99

Any thoughts on waku?
- see answers by @fryorcraken to @v's question below
- How well does it align with the fairly comprehensive FIP?

Technowatermelon. Elder Millenial. Building Farcaster. 

nf.td/varun

Building @waku at Logos.co / free.technology

BDFL of Quilibrium, Eng @ Farcaster, ex-Coinbase, always opinionated, never hydrated

/quilibrium

Any thoughts on waku?
- see answers by @fryorcraken.eth to @v's question below
- How well does it align with the fairly comprehensive FIP?
https://warpcast.com/v/0x6c0022

Public space ops, App integration facilitator @brightid

I’d need to dig into more of the details, but at least from the thread, what was built is impressive. For parity, it would need:
- perfect forward secrecy
- repudiability
- analysis resistance
- out-of-order messaging
- all of these properties in group messaging

Status chat protocols provide those above. They implemented double ratchet over Whisper years ago, including k-anonymity to avoid sender-recipient linkability.

group linkability can be produced by traffic analysis given message distribution. The reason why triple ratchet was designed was to resolve the O(n) encryption/broadcast requirement for group chats (which tends to limit group size), and remove identifiability of groups based on traffic analysis.

Thanks for the link — after looking into it, it appears group chats are facilitated via pairwise double ratchet channels. That can work (and similarly is how signal manages things), but the caveat is without a verifiable encryption scheme, it is not guaranteed that all parties have received the same message, and —

Status chat protocols provide those above. They implemented double ratchet over Whisper years ago, including k-anonymity to avoid sender-recipient linkability.

https://specs.status.im/

That is amazing!!!
Glad to have been a tiny part in the meeting of the great minds solving hard problems.

I ran into the same problems with whisper, which was why I invented Triple-Ratchet from my experience with building MPC systems 😄

form non expert pov these look exactly like waku concerns debated uncompromisingly for a long long time since they hit the wall with whisper ages ago. @fryorcraken.eth can definitely give the details in the language that is clear.