𝖘𝖈𝖚𝖒 on Farcaster

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https://warpcast.com/~/channel/cryptoleft

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Purp🇵🇸 pfp

Til that Yanis Varoufakis wrote a book about a post capitalist utopia society and that society used blockchain Big L's in chat for the sweaty nerds who cry about the left being anti technology

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gFam.live (UrbanGladiator)

Truly, the reason I got into blockchain was for all the huge lefty potential.... and I find it super upsetting that its got a (well deserved) reputation for being scammy. Did YV write a fiction book with characters and a story, or is it more a potential future vision?

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From what I've seen it described its a speculative fiction book about what his post capitalist world would look like, here's good interview hes anti crypto for replacing dollar( but on economic grounds mainly) but seems generally pro nft metaverse daos and blockchain https://the-crypto-syllabus.com/yanis-varoufakis-on-techno-feudalism/

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Have you read it? I’m not really seeing a way of getting to a world where capitalism is removed, but NFT/DAO/Metaverse still exist

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I've not but from what I've seen on block chain use in book, its ledger for monetary value as well as like deeds, he says this in the interview I shared. Daos id imagine some combination of what we consider dao thought mixed with Kibbutzim/ any other historical agrarian communal structure I am probally going to buy me a copy soon though and read it( im not huge on post capitalist utopian theroy though )

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@degencummunist.eth

Sooo I have the book and the jist of it is a character from our world open basically a portal to an alternate universe version of our world where everything was the same, up until the 2008 financial crisis wherein a bunch of ‘crypto anarchists/communist market manipulators’ strategical crash the capitalist’s mode of production via the stock market. The rest of the book dives into how in the year I think it was 2020/25ish the world works and it’s basically cooperatives galore and anarcho-syndicates of coops governing global production at the top level

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Why are the cooperatives operating? What is their incentive structure? Is it just “utopia and everything is for the good of everyone”? Is there anything “wrong” in the society or is it true utopia?

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@degencummunist.eth

No such thing as true ‘utopia’ here. Just meaningful shares of ownership for everyone throughout society. One of the first things they did was abolish the stock market and basically give everyone a part ownership in all companies, then those dividends get collectively dispersed universally as a natural dividend opposed to a flat UBI thing

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Why do you need more than one company doing a task in that case? Does the system devolve into monopoly only?

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@degencummunist.eth

No, it’d still have small biz/cooperatives that get grants but don’t compete necessarily, they cooperate within larger syndicates of coops

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Evan pfp

Small biz? In the article, he seems open to handing over a company like Amazon or Meta to this system. Are they then dismantled into smaller businesses? How does that create the same dividend to everyone?

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@degencummunist.eth

‘Handing over a company like Amazon or Meta to this system.’ Can you elaborate more on what you think ‘this system’ entails? Like what’s your impression of how syndicates/coops work?

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I don’t really know, which is why I’m asking. If the stock market is gone (also a main way they continue to fund operations) and everyone owns stock in all companies, then who is running Meta for example and why And why are they providing any value to the stockholders? Is Zuck still there or is he in the gulags (and why would he still be there)? Who is in charge, how do they know how to run a tech company, and why are they doing it?

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@degencummunist.eth

Alright so I see we need to start from the beginning then. So Zuck would remain in his position, with a tremendously reduced ownership share of the company/salary, only if* all the workers agreed that his contribution to the company was deemed invaluable and necessary to them. He would be chief of the company only at the pleasure of those that work for it. Which imho is a much more meritocratic/badass way to run a company vs with shareholders and endless profit seeking/exploitation. You lead only at their leisure.

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But those who are in the current “ruling class” fight this from happening to start? And that’s probably VP level and up? So they’d have to be overthrown. So they’d either be all gone or forced to work there? But at the same time, they’re still technically part of “all the workers” so that’s confusing. After that, who gets to work there? Anyone who wants? Everyone just gets to pick and of the companies that they want to work at? What if everyone wants to work at a few companies and nobody wants to work at others? Is the whole world voting with their one vote about how every company should run?

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@degencummunist.eth

Ight my guy, you’re needing a lot of articulation and although I’m pro+ and can do 10k casts I do t have all the time in the world. You seem convinced that it’s only through executive level decision making (at 200-350x the pay of their workers) and passive ownership through being a shareholder is the only way to motivate society into working. But I’d like to argue that that is kind of as ridiculous as believing Kings ordained by God were the ultimate decision makers…? Capital ownership ≠ equal meritocratic or competency, it equals you have money and enough to invest with which may have come at the expense of centuries or decades of exploiting vulnerable workers. Imho we need a hard reset in the game that is the markets and ideally we should have a diverse plethora of economic experimentations happening. But what we got now is so obviously rigged it’s not worth participating…

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Evan pfp

Not quite. What I’m struggling with here is the presumption that all of these companies and the value they create can simply be transferred from the capitalist system to whatever you want to call this. I’m almost positive that your “hard reset” would require the destruction of all of these companies and the value they have created/continue to create and for something else to be rebuilt. Maybe that’s what you want, but I’m not going to sit here and nod along to the idea that taking all company stock and putting it into a big pool will be worth so much that everyone can live off of it’s amazing dividend and then we’ll all work wherever we want and it’ll be great. Your last cast devolved from trying to explain to me how the new system can work to just telling me how the current system is bad. I’m not really interested in why you think the current system is bad, but I am looking for someone to try and explain how an alternate system can work. You may have seen a previous post I did where I defended a possibility that we could reach a post-scarcity world where costs approach zero via capitalist ultra-progress where it doesn’t matter what the upper bound has, because everyone has a lot. I’m asking what the future can look like, not what is happening in the present. Because the choices we make now are going to be really important to where we end up

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@degencummunist.eth

“Not quite. What I’m struggling with here is the presumption that all of these companies and the value they create can simply be transferred from the capitalist system to whatever you want to call this.” -just gonna say that capitalism is literally built for the transfer of property ownership, it’s like it’s whole thing except it’s been unidirectionally towards a centralized few, what’s unfathomable is that they would be forced to reasonably SHARE their shares! “I’m almost positive that your “hard reset” would require the destruction of all of these companies and the value they have created/continue to create and for something else to be rebuilt.” -No I am not. They could all continue to operate as they do, just the structure of ownership and governance decision making power would be decentralized and distributed more reasonably than how they currently are (all power in our current system is controlled by less than 0.01% of the population) “Maybe that’s what you want, but I’m not going to sit here and nod along to the idea that taking all company stock and putting it into a big pool will be worth so much that everyone can live off of it’s amazing dividend and then we’ll all work wherever we want and it’ll be great.” -This is how our capitalist lords currently live their extravagant lives at the expense of all our labor and socializing their losses with our taxes. Democratize and decentralize, unless you disagree that you, I and everyone else deserve a decent(ralized) living? “Your last cast devolved from trying to explain to me how the new system can work to just telling me how the current system is bad. I’m not really interested in why you think the current system is bad, but I am looking for someone to try and explain how an alternate system can work.” -All power to all people, that’s it. “You may have seen a previous post I did where I defended a possibility that we could reach a post-scarcity world where costs approach zero via capitalist ultra-progress where it doesn’t matter what the upper bound has, because everyone has a lot.” -This is confusing and conflating the relative drop in pricing and cost to produce for non-essential goods with essential. Nothing we need* (food, water, power, housing etc.) goes down in price or cost due to capitalist innovation. Hell it can’t even maintain rates of profits for more than a decade without going on an imperial campaign to over exploit another country thru wars! The falling rate of profits will inevitably cause this system we’re in to consume itself bc capitalism is self defeating unless it gets bailed out by fascism. “I’m asking what the future can look like, not what is happening in the present. Because the choices we make now are going to be really important to where we end up.” - what things could look like is a prolific amount of power and autonomy being given back to you by further socializing (democratizing) our politics AND economic modes of production. There’s no reason for us to still be following the 250yo rules of a constitutional republic that has proven time and again to be rigged in favor of the masters/ownership class. We* (not the state, not our bosses and not their shareholders) should be making the decisions for ourselves AND NOT THEM!

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Ooo, new question for you guys. What happens to a college like Yale who has a $40B+ investment endowment? Doesn’t really have shares or anything, but definitely part of the capitalist system

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