Programming languages, the infinite garden, and great storytelling. Building Dave, a permissionless fraud-proof system.
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New fraud-proof algorithm incoming at @devcon! No more Sybil attacks; let’s build truly 1-of-N systems.
https://devcon.org/en/sea/schedule/C7ZFH3/
We’ll publish the paper soon. See you in Bangkok :)
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Nice article! Quick correction: Dave is permissionless.
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Fraud Proofs Are Broken
...but we can fix them
A post on why we need to do a better job at permissionless interactive fraud proof research, and on why we should do it together.
https://ethresear.ch/t/fraud-proofs-are-broken/19234
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Top casts
New fraud-proof algorithm incoming at @devcon! No more Sybil attacks; let’s build truly 1-of-N systems.
https://devcon.org/en/sea/schedule/C7ZFH3/
We’ll publish the paper soon. See you in Bangkok :)
0 replies
2 recasts
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While faster withdrawals are undeniably important, deprioritizing Stage 2 at this point feels reckless. L2s must meet the same standards that make Ethereum worth scaling. History is clear: when removing training wheels isn’t urgent, teams just deprioritize it and progress stalls.
Cost at scale also demands sober reckoning. Justin Drake’s recent “lean Ethereum” calls for tera-gas/sec throughput across L2s. At today’s ZK proving prices (~$0.004 per MGas/s, see ethproofs), that’s ~$120B yearly. Forty times Ethereum’s annual issuance and nearly the entire economic security of the network, all incinerated yearly at the silicon altar of the ZK gods. Even if we manage to cut these costs by an order of magnitude, the burden remains enormous.
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These costs may be justified for high-TVL shared rollups. But for app-chains and niche use cases, they are simply prohibitive, eliminating such applications from the chain entirely. Ethereum shouldn’t become a chain just for whales. For these, fraud proofs remain the sustainable, decentralized option. One size won’t fit all.
It’s worth remembering: the 7-day withdrawal delay isn’t some immutable law of optimistic rollups; it's a conservative policy set by the L1 community. With consensus, we could reduce it to a day, dramatically enhancing user experience.
So yes, let’s push for faster withdrawals. But let’s do it responsibly, holding firm to security principles, grounding our costs in reality, and acknowledging that there are no silver bullets. Sometimes, something has to give.
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